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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens
League of Infamy
124
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Posted - 2013.10.05 21:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think match balance encouraged by a Meta level metric system is a tremendous idea. A big hurdle is coming up with a statistic to compute suit meta levels that is fair. Depending on how to build that system, we could see many types of residual effects. For instance, with a sum of "the combined meta-levels for all modules, equipment and weapons fitted" as you described, one thing that could result is a much greater burden placed on teams to keep their logistics operators alive or spawn in only a few. Due to their higher base slot capacity, relative to other suits, Logistics operators would likely have a higher base meta level sum. Arguably, there is a high value in an enemy logistics kill because of the more WP earning potential these suits offer the users with the carrying capacity for hives, rep tools, and spawn pads. On the other hand, penalizing play styles that favor defensive and support roles with logistics suits may not be the best idea.
I think it would be important to add and additional metric which gauges both the meta levels of defensive and offensive attributes, modules, and equipment in a suit and then computes and average score from those variables. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens
League of Infamy
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 03:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's also important to recognize the effect that an 'averages of suit slot' system would cause as well. Averaging meta levels of all active slot items would be more favorable than sum totals to high slot-equipment heavy suit types such as Minmatar and Gallente variants. It would allow players of these suit types to play defensive support roles in the use of their equipment to assist fellow squad members. However with averages, an easy problem to run into is skewness of data. Savvy fitting players could accentuate the role of logi hunters by equipping high metal level modules and a weapon, whilst placing low 0 and 1 meta equipment such as hives and explosives. This artificially skews the player's total suit meta score down by introducing extreme outliers.
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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens
League of Infamy
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 04:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Not totally against the idea, but a 25 pt spread is way too much. I wouldn't mind seeing a +5 WP 'Underdog' bonus if someone in a Militia suit, kills someone in a Proto suit. Simple as that. The suits themselves would be the only factor, no guns, modules or anything else in the equation.
I don't want to see the Proto players punished too much for using their expensive gear, they are already risking far more ISK than other players.
I agree with a low "Underdog" bonus that scales with meta level difference disparity. Maybe 3 to 4 point per level. However, suits can't be the only thing that play into this equation. There are problems that come out out of that when players use militia suits with high powered weapons.
To illustrate, WP based on suit disparity would highly encourage more players to choose the role of the sniper. Simply theorycrafting here, a high proficiency Std. Minmatar Assault can fit a Charge Sniper 2x Complex Dmg Mods, 1x Enh Dmg Mod, Complex CPU, and 1x X-3 Quantum Nanohive.
This highly economized suit can output over 450 dmg per shot from over 400 meters with 30 additional rounds to spare before resupply. Again these figures are calculated on a high SP character. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens
League of Infamy
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 05:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Not totally against the idea, but a 25 pt spread is way too much. I wouldn't mind seeing a +5 WP 'Underdog' bonus if someone in a Militia suit, kills someone in a Proto suit. Simple as that. The suits themselves would be the only factor, no guns, modules or anything else in the equation.
I don't want to see the Proto players punished too much for using their expensive gear, they are already risking far more ISK than other players. I agree with a low "Underdog" bonus that scales with meta level difference disparity. Maybe 3 to 4 point per level. However, suits can't be the only thing that play into this equation. There are problems that come out out of that when players use militia suits with high powered weapons. To illustrate, WP based on suit disparity would highly encourage more players to choose the role of the sniper. Simply theorycrafting here, a high proficiency Std. Minmatar Assault can fit a Charge Sniper 2x Complex Dmg Mods, 1x Enh Dmg Mod, Complex CPU, and 1x X-3 Quantum Nanohive. This highly economized suit can output over 450 dmg per shot from over 400 meters with 30 additional rounds to spare before resupply. Again these figures are calculated on a high SP character. It's an effective and simple way to make the calculation. But feel free to make this more complicated than it needs to be. People can buff their Militia suits all to hell with equipment, but bottom line: It's still a militia suit. If people want to make "super militia suits" in order to farm a measly 5+ pt bonus on Proto's they manage to kill, then power to them.
So, I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Your system is a bonus of +5wp that is only awarded if a milita suit kills a protosuit? This doesn't apply to standard suits killing a proto, or a militia killing an advanced suit? |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens
League of Infamy
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 13:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Not totally against the idea, but a 25 pt spread is way too much. I wouldn't mind seeing a +5 WP 'Underdog' bonus if someone in a Militia suit, kills someone in a Proto suit. Simple as that. The suits themselves would be the only factor, no guns, modules or anything else in the equation.
I don't want to see the Proto players punished too much for using their expensive gear, they are already risking far more ISK than other players. I agree with a low "Underdog" bonus that scales with meta level difference disparity. Maybe 3 to 4 point per level. However, suits can't be the only thing that play into this equation. There are problems that come out out of that when players use militia suits with high powered weapons. To illustrate, WP based on suit disparity would highly encourage more players to choose the role of the sniper. Simply theorycrafting here, a high proficiency Std. Minmatar Assault can fit a Charge Sniper 2x Complex Dmg Mods, 1x Enh Dmg Mod, Complex CPU, and 1x X-3 Quantum Nanohive. This highly economized suit can output over 450 dmg per shot from over 400 meters with 30 additional rounds to spare before resupply. Again these figures are calculated on a high SP character. It's an effective and simple way to make the calculation. But feel free to make this more complicated than it needs to be. People can buff their Militia suits all to hell with equipment, but bottom line: It's still a militia suit. If people want to make "super militia suits" in order to farm a measly 5+ pt bonus on Proto's they manage to kill, then power to them. So, I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Your system is a bonus of +5wp that is only awarded if a milita suit kills a protosuit? This doesn't apply to standard suits killing a proto, or a militia killing an advanced suit? To be honest, if it were up to me I might not implement this system at all. There are bigger fish to fry in the grand scheme of things. But when possible, keep things simple. Right now a kill is 50 WP. Fair enough. Players can choose to risk as much or as little ISK as they want in a match, to field more or less effective suits. Also fair enough. So I have no problem with chucking players in Militia suits a 'pat on the back's' worth of 5 WP for taking out a far superior Proto player. But when you want to start throwing in WP penalties/bonuses for every suit, weapon and module levels, the whole thing turns into a complicated mess. Meaning a player would almost never get the same reward for different kills, and just further confuse new players. Furthermore, you don't want to punish people for using Proto equipment. It's great for the Dust economy when people go out and lose their Proto gear.
You do make valid point in regards to complexity of the system, but at its core a meta level penalty/bonus system encourages less protosuit use in Pub matches as the OP is initially arguing for. If the system carried over to PC battles we wouldn't see much of a change in teams fielding high meta suits as the rewards and stakes of the matches are higher. However, some teams in PC matches may make the conscientious choice to field meta equivalent advanced or even standard suits in order to game the system for more war points. Yet, this comes at a disadvantage to being more squishy in battle.
Ultimately, moving in a direction of where meta level metrics matter, it appears that system would encourage greater tactical level thinking and variety in matches. |
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